kuJ Kfs
isrjxf df pflxhfr : zf: rGbIr isMG
suKvMq huMdl
sfDU ibinMg
 

(pMjfbI dy msLhUr aqy mhwqvpUrn mYgjLIn isrjxf dy sMpfdk zf: rGbIr nfl kIqI ieh mulfkfq pihlI vfr vqn dy akqUbr/nvMbr/dsMbr-1992 dy ivsLysL mulfkfq aMk ivwc CpI sI. hux asIN ies nUM vqn dy vYWbsfeIt AuWqy Cfp rhy hF qF ik ieh ijLafdf lokF nUM pRfpq ho sky.)

svfl: kuwJ lok quhfnMU kimAUinst pfrtI dy kulvkqI mYNbr dy qOr qy jfxdy hoxgy, kuwJ lok iek aiDafpk dy qOr qy jfxdy hoxgy, bhuq lok isrjxf dy sMpfdk dy qOr qy jfxdy hn qy keI lok quhfnUM aflock dy qOr qy jfxdy hn. jykr qusIN pfTkF nUM afpxI jfx pCfx dyxI hovy qF ikvyN dyvogy?
jvfb: jykr myrI iewCf hI hovy qF mYN cfhvFgf ik lok mYnMU isrjxf dy sMpfdk vjoN jfnx jF Aus bMdy dy qOr qy jfnx ijsnUM sfihq ivc idlcspI hY, jo sfihq df iek pfTk hY. vYsy ijhVIaF qusI sfrIaF gwlF igxfeIaF hn, AuhnF sfrIaF ivc hI mYN ikqy nf ikqy hF. qusIN pihlI gwl kulvkqI dI khI sI. Auh hux bhuq purfxI ho cuwkI hY. mYN afpxI ijLMdgI dy pihly virHaF ivc pMj Cy sfl pfrtI ivc irhf hF. ieh AudoN dI gwl hY jdoN mYN iblkul gBrU avsQf ivc af irhf sI. sMn 64 qwk mYN Cy sfl pfrtI ivc irhf hF.

svfl: ikhVIaF hflqF sI ijhnF ny quhfnMU ieDr ilaFdf? ikvyN ies pfsy vl afey?
jvfb: sfzy sfry ielfky (ijLlf luiDafxf) ivc akflIaF df bVf jLor huMdf sI, ies krky mYN kdy soicaf vI nhIN sI ik mYN kdy ies pfsy (mfrikst) jfvFgf. sfzy sfry ielfky ivc iek bMdf GuMmdf iPrdf huMdf sI, sfnMU pqf huMdf sI ik Auh AuQoN df kimAUinst afrgynfeIjLr hY. Ausdf nF sI igafnI gurbcn isMG guVy qy Ausdf ipMz sI kmflpurf ijwQy mYN hfeI skUl ivc pVHdf sI. jdoN asIN skUl jFdy huMdy sI qF Auh rsqy ivc imldf huMdf sI. gwl ies qrHF hoeI ik asIN jdoN nOvIN ivc pVHdy huMdy sI qF asIN muMizaF ny kmflpury nftk krn df PYslf kIqf. ies bfry asIN afpxy aiDafpkF nUM kuwJ nf dwisaf. ies kfrn AuhnF sfnUM ikhf ik ikAuNik asIN AuhnF nUM dwisaf nhIN iˆes krky AuhnF sfzf dfKlf nhIN Byjxf. hYzmfstr sfihb ny sfnUM GurkI GrkI idwqI. hflFik Auh bVf awCf bMdf sI.

jdoN Aus idn asIN ipMz nMU jf rhy sI qF rfh ivc sfeIkl qy afAuNdy igafnI gurbcn isMG hurIN iml pey. asIN soicaf ik ijhVy kfmryz huMdy aF iehnF kol sfrIaF gwlF dy hwl huMdy hn. asIN AuhnF nMU afpxI smwisaf dwsI. asIN dwisaf ik asIN iedF nftk krnf qy hYzmfstr sfnMU GUrdf. kihMdf dfKlf nhIN jfx dyxf. Auh (igafnI gurbcn isMG) kihMdf ik kOx rok skdf quhfnUM nftk krn qoN qy kOx rokygf dfKlf. qusIN jfAu kro nftk. KuwlH ky kro, sgoN mYN afAUNgf Aus idn quhfzf nftk dyKx. asIN Aus idn nftk kIqf vfh vfh bVI hoeI. mYN nf isrP nftk ivc rol kIqf sgoN kivqfvF vI pVHIaF. mYN AudoN kivqfvF vI ilKdf huMdf sI. Auh ijhVf igafnI gurbcn isMG guVy sI Auhny mYnMU kYpcr kr ilaf. ipMzF ivc zrfmy zrUmy krdy huMdy sI, mYnMU sLOk sI. ies qrHF mYN pfrtI dy nfl zrfmy zrUmy krn lwg ipaf. dsvIN krn qoN ipwCoN swcI gwl hY ik myry Gr dy soc vI nhIN skdy sI ik Auh mYnMU kflj Byjxgy. mYN pfrtI dy ijLlf dPqr ivc kMm krn lwg ipaf. swcI gl qF ieh hY ik mYN CyqI awgy kdm put lYNdf sI qy do sflF ivc hI awgy qoN awgy clf igaf. iPr pfrtI dI ijLlf kfnPrMs hoeI. Aus ivc mYN vI zYlIgyt sI. mYN AuWQy vfhvf qyjL boilaf. AuWQy sUby `coN lIzrisLwp afeI hoeI sI. AuhnF nMU myrI spIc cMgI lwgI qy Auh kihMdy awCf, qYnMU asIN styt hYWz kuaftr ivc lY jFdy hF. pihlF AuhnF mYnMU pMjfb iksfn sBf dy morcy ivc rwiKaf, vkqI qOr qy. AuhnF df dPqr sFBx vflf koeI nhIN sI. iPr hYWz kuaftr cly gey. mYnMU sMg ijhI lwgdI hY dsdy nUM ik mYN AuWQy aYPIsLYNt kfPI sI. Auh ijhVf vI kMm mYnMU idMdy, mYN kr lYNdf sI. qy ies qrHF mYN AuQy dy dPqr clfAux vfly df iek iksm df aisstYNt ijhf bx igaf. iPr AuQy kMm krdy rhy kfPI dyr. iPr jdoN cIn dI lVfeI lwgI qF do pfrtIaF bx geIaF. ijhVy (so kflz) cIn pwKI sI AuhnF sfiraF nMU (lIzrisLwp nUM) PVky lY gey. iek dUjy qy by-ivsLvfsI bVI sI AuhnF idnF ivc. afpxf kfmryz nhIN sI smJdy, sgoN dusLmx smJdy sI ijhVf quhfzy ivcfrF df nhIN sI. mYN vI AuhnF idnF ivc AuhnF nfl sI ijhnF nUM aKOqI cIn pwKI kihMdy sI. pfrtI ivc bihsF bhuq huMdIaF sn. bVIaF iqwKIaF iqwKIaF gwlf kIqIaF, ilK ilK ky vI BfsLx idwqy, irkfrz ivc ilafAux dI Kfqr. dUijaF df kbjLf ho igaf pfrtI qy. jdoN AuhnF df kbjLf ho igaf qF asIN soicaf ik sfzI hux sur nhIN rldI qy QoVHI dyr ipCoN mYN AuhnF nUM ikhf ik quhfzy nfl sfzf myl jol nhIN hY. ieh sfrI gwl bfht dI hY. 63 df sfrf sfl sfzy lIzr aMdr rhy. ies hflq ivc asIN AuhnF df sfQ Cwz idwqf. iesdy nfl nfl mYN pVHdf irhf sI. luiDafxy afAux qoN pihlF mYN aYP[ey[ kIqI hoeI sI (p®feIvyt). bfad ivc mYN (63 qoN pihlF) bI[ ey[ vI kr leI sI.

pfrtI Cwzx qy mYN soicaf ik hux kI krnf hY? AuhnF idnF ivc ienklfb kfPI isr qy ciVHaf huMdf sI pr pfrtI ivc QF hI nhIN sI. mYN cuwp krky kflj dfKlf lY ilaf qy mYN aYm[ ey[ ivwc pVHn lwg igaf. ies qrHF aYm[ ey[ krn lwgxf iek qrHF df hfdsf hI sI. aYm[ey[ krky iPr kYrIar hI dUjy pfsy sLurU ho igaf. pihlF kflj qy iPr XUnIvirstI ivc nOkrI kIqI. mYN quhfnMU ieh dwsF myrI ijLMdgI ivc ies hfdsy vFg hor vI keI kuwJ hfdsy nfl hI hoieaf hY, iek dm ruwK bdl huMdf irhf. mYN socdF hF jy zrfmy vflI gwl nf huMdI qy sLfied myrf iblkul iewDr kfmryzF nfl myl imlfp nf huMdf qy iPr jy bfht dIaF GtnfvF nf vfprdIaF qF sLfied mYN kdy vI kulvkqI pfrtI dI mYNbrisLwp nf Czdf.

svfl: awCf ieh sfry smyN dOrfn jdoN qusIN skUl kflj qy iPr pfrtI leI kMm krdy rhy sI Aus smyN ijhVI pfrtI dI, ies sfrI mUvmyNt dI QIAurYtIkl sfeIz sI, Aus bfry dwso? qusIN Kud ikMnf ku mfrkisjLm piVHaf? dUjy lok ikMnI ku iQAurI pVHdy sn? jF ijhVI gwl-bfq huMdI sI Auh isrP AuQoN dy isafsI msilaF duafly hI hMudI sI jF QIAurYtIkl sfeIz vI quhfzy ivcfr ivtFdrf df ihwsf huMdI sI?
jvfb: ijWQoN qwk myrf quawlk hY mYN ieh qF nhIN kihMdf ik bhuq isstymYtIkl piVHaf mfrkisjm. iehI ijhI gwl qF nhIN sI pr ijhVIaF vI ikqfbF imldIaF sn, ijhnF dI ijLafdf crcf huMdI sI, Auh ikqfbF jLrUr pVHI dIaF sI. kuJ byisk ikqfbF iesqrHF dIaF ijvyN zfeIlYktIkl mYtIrIailjLm, ihstorIkl mYtIrIailjLm dIaF jo ikqfbF ny, Auh ikqfbF jLrUr pVHIaF. ievyN ijvyN mfrks dIaF, lYinn dIaF ijvyN styt aYNz rYvUlUsLn afid ies qrHF dIaF ikqfbF pVHIaF. mYnMU pVHn df sLok sI qy mYN kfPI kfmryzF dy tfkry ijLafdf pVHn vflf sI. ieh ijhVI gwl qusIN khI bVI ZukvIN hY, beI asIN ieh vI gwl krdy huMdy sI ik bhuq sfry kfmryz sn ijhVy sdf krMt aPyar dI gwl krdy huMdy sI. asIN ies gwl nMU mfVf smJdy sI. asIN kihMdy huMdy sI ik kfmryz ieh qF bhuq AuprlIaF AuprlIaF gwlF ny sfnMU byisk mfrkisst aMzrstYNizMg hoxI cfhIdI hY asIN kihMdy huMdy sI ik sfQI ieh ijhVf nvF jmfnf ieh qF inwq dIaF KbrF leI hI hY. qy jykr quhfzI byisk aMzrstYNizMg nhIN qF Pyr qusIN iQVk jfAuNgy. koisLsL mYN krdf irhf, Aus smyN pVHn dI. mfAu dIaF ilKqF aqy hor cInI lyKkF dIaF ilKqF. mfrks dIaF ilKqF. msLhUr msLhUr ikqfbF pVHn dI hmysLF koisLsL kIqI hY. pr ieh Jorf jLrUr hY ik isstymYitk ZMg nfl stwzI nhIN hoeI.

svfl: AudoN jdoN isDFqk cIjLF pVH rhy sI, Auhdy nfl nfl pMjfbI sfihq jF hor sfihq ikMnf ku piVHaf? quhfzy sfQIaF dy sfihq bfry kI ivcfr sn? Auh ikMnf ku pVHdy sn?
jvfb: ijvyN mYN dwisaf ik mYnMU sLok sI iltrycr bfry. mYN pfrtI ivc vI AuhnF lokF ivc igixaf jFdf sI ijhnF dI iltrycr nfl idlcspI sI. Aus smyN sBfvF df bVf jor sI ijvyN ilKfrI sBf rfm pur hY, sfihq sBf brnflf hY iehnF df bVf nF huMdf sI. myry vrgf bMdf ijhVf ipMz ivc bYTf sI AusnUM vI bVf cfa huMdf sI ik rfm pur sBf df PMksLn ho irhf hY, beI AuWQy phuMcxf hY. sLurU ivc iek mYN gwl dwsI sI ik mYN kivqf kihMdf huMdf sI. jdoN mYN kfmryz bixaf, ieh gwl mYN hfsy ivc kihMdf huMdf - qF mYN ikhf mYnMU qF akl af geI qy mYnMU lwgf ik ieh kivqf ijhVI hY Auh isafxy bMdy nhIN ilKdy huMdy. jF ieh kho ik mYN eynf ruwKHf ho igaf kivqf vflI gwl mYN Cwz idwqI. iltrycr nMU smJx vflI gwl ijhVI sI, QoVHI krItIkl aproc ijLafdf sI. mYN kih skdf hF ik sLfied ieh myrI QoVHI ijhI kmjLorI vI hovy ik mYN isrjxfqmk rcnf nhIN sI kr skdf. jF mYN bhuqf Xqn nhIN kIqf qy mYN aflocnf dy pfsy pY igaf sI. BfvyN mYN piVHaf QoVHf hI sI AuhnF idnF ivc, pr mYN iqwKIaF iqwKIaF gwlF bVIaF kr lYNdf sI. mYnMU cfa bVf huMdf sI qy jy koeI bihs hoxI mYN jLrUr ihwsf lYxf. Auhdy ivc Kbry myrI Aumr CotI sI, Kbry kwd Cotf sI, Kbry myrI prPfrmYNs ieho ijhI huMdI sI qy mYN hmysLF iDafn iKcdf sI. mYnMU Xfd hY ik iksLn isMG qy sMq isMG syKoN ieh donoN bMdy hI afpxy afp nMU kOminst kihMdy sI, donF nMU kOminst pfrtI vfhvf AuBfrdI sI. pr ieh dovyN iˆˆek dUjy qoN “poljL apfrt” sn. pfrtI ny sfzf Xug nF df isDFqk prcf kwiZaf hoieaf sI. iek vfr kyNdrI sBf ny gosLtI krfAuxI sI. gosLtI qy hoieaf kI ik sMq isMG syKoN ny qF pihlF hI sLyK PrId qy iek lyK iliKaf hoieaf sI qy iksLn isMG nMU ikhf igaf ik qMU ilK. AuhnMU swdf idwqf igaf. asIN Auh donoN lyK sfzf Xug ivc Cfpy qy nfl hI kyNdrI pMjfbI lyKk sBf ny gosLtI kIqI. igafnI hIrf isMG drd AuhnF idnF ivc sBf dy krqf Drqf huMdy sn. AuhnF sfiraF nMU iliKaf ik ijhVy lyK pVHky afAuxgy, cMgf hovy jy AuhnF nUM swB qoN pihlF mOkf idwqf jfvy jo ilK ky ilafAux. mYN Cotf ijhf lyK ilK ilaf ikAuNik sfzf Xug ivc Cpx krky Auh donoN lyK myry hQF ivcoN lMGy sn. mYN vI Cotf ijhf kumYNt nfl ilK idwqf. igafnI jI nUM mYN sMgidaF sMgidaF ikhf ik jI mYN sLfml hoxf gosLtI ivc. AuhnIN dyKky ikhf ik TIk hY. ikAuNik AuWQy AuhnF idnF ivc bhuq mhFrQI afey sI. myrf iKafl hY pMjfbI iltrycr dI koeI aYsI prsnYltI nhIN hoxI ijhVI ik nf afeI hovy. mqlb ik AuQy syKoN qy iksLn isMG hYgy hI sI, pr dUsry -ijvyN p®Iqm isMG, aqr isMG, jsvIr isMG, blvMq gfrgI, sujfn isMG, sMqoK isMG DIr, jsvMq isMG kMvl - sfry hI AuWQy sI. mYN ikAuNik lyK iliKaf sI qy vwzy ivdvfnF ny nhIN sI ilKy qy mYnMU pihlF hI mOkf iml igaf. mYN iswDIaF ijhIaF iqwKIaF iqwKIaF gwlF kIqIaF sI qy mYN iksLn isMG dy iKlfP syKoN dy hwk ivc ikhf. mYN isDIaF pyNzU ijhIaF imsflF vrqIaF. myrI spIc qy kfPI qfVIaF vwjIaF. jlMDr qF p®Ys df Gr hY. dUjy idn sfry aKbfrF ny gosLtI bfry iliKaf. sUbf isMG cMzIgV qoN afieaf hoieaf sI. Auh p®kfsL df aYzItr sI. so Auhny vfps jfky aYzItorIal iliKaf. myrf Kfs ijkr kIqf. mYnUM lwgdf ik Auh sLurUafq sI. mYnMU lwgf ik mYN gwl kr skdf hF.

svfl: AuhnI idnIN pMjfb dy msLhUr lyKkF ivc kox kox igxy jFdy sn?
jvfb: jsvMq isMG kMvl, aMim®qf p®Iqm bhuq pVHy jFdy sn. Aus qoN pihly pIrz ivc nfnk isMG, gurbKsL isMG p®Iq lVI vI pVHy jFdy sn pr msLhUrI pwKoN jsvMq isMG kMvl qy aMim®qf p®Iqm awgy sn. sfzf Jukfa ikAuNik lYPt vwl ho cuwkf sI ies leI gurbKsL isMG nMU pVHnf asIN jLrUrI smJdy sI. sLfied hI AunHF idnF ivc pMjfbI df koeI pfTk aYsf hovy jo nfnk isMG nMU nf pVHdf hovy. sMqoK isMG DIr, krqfr isMG duwgl, kulvMq isMG ivrk, mohn isMG afid vI pVHy jFdy sn. ieh pfrtI dy pftx qoN pihlF dIaF gwlF hn.

svfl: pfrtI dy pftx qoN pihlF jF bfad ivc lyKkF qy pfrtI df afpsI irsLqf ikho ijhf sI?
jvfb: AunHF idnF ivc smuwcf sfihqk sIn Kwby pwKI sI. ijhVy bMdy afpxy afp nMU prfgrYisv nhIN vI khfAuNdy sn AunHF dIaF ilKqF vI Ausy iksm dIaF sn. ijvyN krqfr isMG dwugl, blvMq gfrgI jF kulvMq isMG ivrk afid kdI bhuqf pfrtI dy lfgy nhIN afey sn pr ienHF dIaF ilKqF vI ijLafdfqr prfgrYisv iksm dIaF hI huMdIaF sn. Aus vyly sLfied mfhOl hI ies iksm df sI. ijvyN jdoN asIN skUlF ivc pVHdy sI sfnMU iksy ny nhIN sI ikhf zrfmy krn leI. pr mfhOl hI kuwJ aYsf sI ik sfzy aMdr ieh Bfvnf pYdf ho geI ik asIN lokF nMU cyqnf dyxI hY. sLfied iesy gwl df iswtf sI ik AudoN sBfvF vI bxIaF sn. mYN ieh nhIN kihMdf ik pfrtI ny KVHIaF kr idwqIaF. vYsy ivakqIgq qOr qy kfmryzF df bVf dKl irhf hY sBfvF nMU AuBfrn ivc. ijvyN ik kyNdrI lyKk sBf KVI krn ipwCy pfrtI df hwQ jLrUr sI. pr kmfl dI gwl dyKo AunHF ny Aus ivc igafnI gurmuK isMG musfiPr nMU vI ilaf jo bfad ivc p®Dfn vI irhf. Aus vyly kfmryzF dI ies iksm dI phuMc sI ik jykr asIN sfihqk gwl krnI hY qF ieh “sYktYrIan” nhIN ho skdI. Auh vwzI prfgrYisv Pors lY ky gwl krdy sn. aYvIN nhIN iksy bMdy nMU lybl lfky apxy qoN dUr krdy sn. iesy krky kyNdrI lyKk sBf ivc hr iksm dy ivcfrF vfly lok sn. sLfied Aus vyly pfrtI df vqIrf hI kuJ aijhf sI jF mfhOl hI aYsf sI ik rIaYksLnrI iksm dI gwl Gwt hI sI. imsfl dy qOr qy dyKo ik ijvyN afeI[ sI[ nMdf vrgy df pfrtI nfl dUr df vfsqf vI nhIN sI pr Ausdy nftkF df ivsLf iehI huMdf sI ik hnHyrgrdI dy iKlfP lVnf hY qy prfgrYisv gwl krnI hY.

svfl: kI pfrtI koeI ies iksm df asr pfAux dI vI koisLsL krdI sI ik lyKk ienklfb dI gwl vI krn, jykr hF qF ikvyN?
jvfb: hF pfrtI df vwKrf DVf huMdf sI lyKkF ivc. jdoN ielyksLn huMdI sI kyNdrI lyKk sBf dI qF pfrtI dy mYNbr lyKk afpxI judI mIitMg krdy sn qy kfmryz afp Kud PYsly krdy sn ik kyNdrI pMjfbI lyKk sBf dy ahudydfr Plfny ivakqI hoxgy. pr Auh PYsly aYsy nhIN krdy sn jo sOVy ihwqF dI rKvflI krn blik Auh PYsly qkrIbn hryk nMU mnjUr huMdy sn. ijvyN ik igafnI gurmuK isMG musfPr pMjfb p®dysL kfgrs df p®Dfn sI qy sohx isMG josL Auhdy iKlfP cox lVdy rhy sI pr iPr vI musfiPr nMU kyNdrI lyKk sBf df p®Dfn bxfieaf.

svfl: pfrtI vwloN koeI aijhI koisLsL vI huMdI sI ik jo lyKk pfrtI dy mYNbr nhIN sn AunHF nUM iksy iswDy jF aiswDy ZMg nfl pfsy kIqf jfvy?
jvfb: PYsly sfry aMdrUnI huMdy sn ijvyN ik PrjL kro ik pfrtI ny PYslf kr ilaf ik igafnI gurmuK isMG musfiPr nMU p®Dfn bxfAuxf hY qF Ausdf ivroD ijsny krnf hY aMdrly srkl ivc hI krnf hY pfrtI dy, bfhr nhIN. moty qOr qy smJ ieh huMdI sI ik ies sBf nMU isrP afpxI hI nhIN rwKxf blik sfiraF nMU nfl lYxf hY. ies krky kyNdrI sBf df ivroD krn vflf vI koeI nhIN sI ienHF idnF ivc. vYsy pMjfbI sfihq akYzmI vI ienHF idnF ivc hI bxI hY ijsdf krYktr QoVHf ijhf srkfr pwKI huMdf sI hflF ik donF sBfvF ivc bMdy AuhI huMdy sn. pMjfbI sfihq akYzmI df krqf Drqf BfeI XoD isMG sI, sMq isMG syKoN, p®oPYsr p®Iqm isMG afid akfdimk srkl dy bMdy ijLafdf sn Aus ivc. ies krky jdoN ikqy AunHF df koeI PMksLn huMdf sI qF Aus ivc srkfrI aMzbr bhuq huMdf sI pr ieAuN nhIN sI kdI ik ies iksm dI pfbMdI hovy ik Aus sBf dy bMdy iewDr nhIN af skdy. myry igafn ivc koeI aijhI gwl nhIN jdoN kdy sBf ny PYslf kIqf hovy ik Plfny bMdy nMU pfsy krnf hY jF rwKxf hY. ijvyN aYs[ aYs[ amol, aYm[ aYs[ rMDfvf, kulvMq isMG ivrk afid sBf dy jnrl skwqr rhy hn pr ienHF dI kOminst pfrtI nfl koeI nfqf nhIN sI.

svfl: ijhVy isafsI lIzr sn ijnHF df afpxf sfihq nfl koeI sbMD nhIN sI AunHF df lyKkF vwl iks iksm df rvweIaf sI?
jvfb: ijhVy Kfs bMdy sn pfrtI dy ijvyN ik sohx isMG josL, jgjIq isMG afnMd, hriksLn isMG surjIq, avqfr isMG mlhoqrf afid ienHF df vqIrf kfPI ijLMmyvfrI vflf huMdf sI pr AuNJ ieh ijvyN kih lAu ik pMjfb dy klcr ivc hI koeI aYsI gwl hY ik smuwcI kOminst lIzrisLp df vqIrf koeI ijLafdf vDIaf nhIN sI. PrjL kro ik pfrtI dy lyKkF dy guwt dy pfrtI dI lfeIn nfl kuJ mwq Byd hox qF AusnMU bVI iq®skfr dI Bfvnf nfl dyKdy sn. ies iksm dIaF gwlF krdy sn ik ieh lyKk bMdy iesy qrHF dy huMdy hn, ienHF ivc jmfqI cyqnqf dI Gft hY vgYrf vgYrf. ieh qF hY ik vwzy lyKkF vwl phuMc ik ieh kwcIaF ijhIaF gwlF krdy hn ienHF nMU ijLafdf mhwqqf nhIN dyxI cfhIdI. iek pfsy qF kfmryzF ivc jfgrqI hY ik AunHF ny afpxf sunyhf dyx leI hr ijLly ivc zrfmy krny, ijnHF ivcoN vwzy vwzy lok klfkfr vI inkly hn ijvyN juigMdr bfhrlf, dusFJ afid. iesy qrHF kvI lwKf isMG jOhr lfhOrI rfm p®dysI, rUV isMG ienklfb afid jo ik sfry sfDfrx pfrtI vrkr sn qy bfad ivc bVy msLhUr hoey. iesy qrHF ipMzF ivc jykr iQeytr phuMcfieaf qF kfmryzF ny phuMcfieaf. jfxI ik iek pfsy qF AunHF ivc ienHI cyqnf hY ik jykr lokF ivc afpxI gwl phuMcfAuxI hY qF AunHF dy bhfa ivc gwl krnI cfhIdI hY qy AunHF nMU QoVHf bhuq mnorMjn vI dyxf cfhIdf. so ieh pwK qF Auh smJdy sn. pr dUsry pfsy klfkfrF nMU ies iksm df smJdy sn ik ijvyN sIrIas gwl krn qoN pihlF nklIey lgf idwqy jfx. so zrfmy vfly ijnHF bMidaF nMU bfad ivc mfnqf vI iml geI AunHF nMU vI pfrtI Aupr iehI iglHf irhf ik sfnMU Kyz qmfsLy vfly bMdy eI smJdy af koeI Kfs ZMg nfl nhIN lYNdy. QoVHf bhuqf sLfied AunHF ivc vI afritstF vflf nKrf afAuNdf irhf hovy. pr bhuq hwd qwk mYnMU Auh TIk lgdy sn. pfrtI dy ies vqIry krky bhuq sfry lok duKI vI huMdy rhy af. so ieh sfrf smF gwl cldI rhI hY.

svfl: ijhVf quhfzf aYm[ ey[ vwl afAux df hfdsf hY Aus qoN isrjxf vwl ikvyN afAux hoieaf?
jvfb: swTivaF ivc jdoN mYN aYm[ey[ kr irhf sI AudoN prfgrYisv mUvmYNt df joLr sI. BfvyN cflHIivaF ivc Dfrimk Bfvnf df jLrf joLr sI, BfeI vIr isMG dy vyly, pr bfad ivc swTivaF ivc koeI vI vDIaf lyKk ies pfsy nhIN quiraf. AudoN prfgrYisv Bfvnf df ivroD vI hoieaf iekwly pMjfbI sfihq ivc hI nhIN sfry ihMdusqfn ivc vI. imsfl vjoN jykr kOminst smfj dI gwl krdy sn qF dUjy pfsy vfly kihMdy sn ik iltrycr df isrP ivakqIgq nfl qawlk hY smfj nfl nhIN. kOminst iltrycr ivakqI nMU Kqm krdf hY ies leI asIN iekwly ivakqI dI gwl krFgy smfj dI nhIN. AunHF idnF ivc sfnMU ieh gwl bVI aKrdI sI. hflFik sLfied AunHF dIaF kuJ gwlF ivcoN hux mYnMU kwuJ TIk vI jfpdIaF hn. pr AunHF idnF ivc Auh pUrIaF pMUjIvfdI kdrF kImqF ilaf rhy sn jo sfnMU TIk nhIN sI lgdIaF. Auh ies iksm dI gwlF krdy sn ik kOminstF df iek PfrmUlf hY ijs anusfr AuhnF ny iek kmjLor mjLdUr idKfAuxf hY, iek mflk idKfAuxf hY qy mjLdUr dI luwt Ksuwt idKflxI hY qy bws. ienHF ny qF iltrycr dI jfn hI kwZ idwqI hY. AunHF ikhf ik iltrycr ivc nvIN afeIzYNttI, nvyN isMbljL dI loV hY, nvIN phuMc cfhIdI hY. jdoN Auh lok jQybMdk pwDr Aupr afey qF sfnMU jfipaf ik AuhnF df ivroD hoxf cfhIdf hY. asIN kwuJ dosqF ny mihsUs kIqf ik sfzy purfxy bjLurg ies nvIN phuMc df mukfblf nhIN kr skdy jF iesdI loV nhIN smJdy. so asIN mihsUs kIqf ik asIN prcf kwZFgy qy ienHF nvyN bMidaF nMU lVfeI dyvFgy qy 1965 ivc swq awT dosqF ny rlky jlMDroN isrjxf sLurU kIqf. ies ivc ijwQoN qwk pfrtI df sbMD hY - hflFik mYN pUrf pfrtI df ihwsf nhIN sI rih igaf pr pUrf bfhr vI nhIN sI hoieaf- AudoN vI ieh zr ijhf sI ik Auh sfnMU ieh nf kih dyx ik asIN ikhVy kuwqy kMm ivc pey hoey hF. pr koeI aijhf hfdsf nhIN hoieaf. pfrtI ny sfzy prcy leI koeI rok nhIN pfeI.

svfl: quhfzy nfl hor ikhVy ikhVy lok sn?
jvfb: myry inwjI dosq hI sn ijvyN hrBjn huMdl, nirMdr josLI, surysL isMG qy iek do hor kfmryz dosq sn jo iswDy qOr qy iltryrI bMdy nhIN sn pr sMjLIdf pfTk sn. guridafl isMG hurF df kMm hI bihsF krn df sI cfhy Auh polIitks hovy iltrycr hovy jF isDFq dI gwl hovy. Auh vI sfzy nfl sn. ieh gwl sfzy mYnIPYsto ivc sI ik ieh p®XogvfdI lyKk sfzI “afeIizAulojI” Aupr vfr kr rhy hn. ienHF df mukfblf krn dI loV hY qy sfnMU afpxy ivcly nuks dUr krky sfhmxy afAuxf cfhIdf hY. iltrycr ivc mOlikqf qF hoxI cfhIdI hY. PfrmUlf tfeIp musLiklF Aupr hI nhIN ilKI jfxf cfhIdf. vYsy KusLiksmqI vflI gwl ieh hoeI ik jdoN asIN prcf kwiZaf qF sfzI AumId qoN ikqy ijLafdf hONslf imilaf. dUsry lyKk isrjxf dy hr iesLU df juafb idMdy sn kdy iksy prcy ivc kdy iksy ivc. hfsy vflI gwl ieh bxI ik Auh socx lwg pey ik qY®mfsk pwqr df juafb qY®mfsk pwqr ivc hI dyxf cfhIdf hY. bws iPr cl so cl. kuwJ sflF ivc hI aYkspYrImYNtilst Kqm ho gey qy muVky Pyr prfgrYisv gwl cl peI.

svfl: prcf sLurU krn vyly quhfzy mn ivc pfTk kOx sn?
jvfb: mYN ieh qF nhIN sI smJdf ik sfzy pfTk iblkul afm pwDr dy hoxgy. isrjxf pfpUlr prcf kdy vI nhIN sI. asIN smJdy sI ik sfzI phuMc sfihq dy gMBIr pfTkF qwk hI hoxI cfhIdI hY. ies gwl nMU sfzI sImf vI ikhf jf skdf hY ik asIN sDfrn pfTk nMU iblkul tfrgt nhIN kIqf qy nf hI hux qwk sfzy koloN hoieaf hY. sfzy mn ivc Dfrnf afeIizAulojIkl pwDr qy bihs CyVn dI sI. ijsdf pwDr afm pfTk qoN Aupr sI. BfvyN asIN krIeyitv mYtIrIal vI Cfpdy sI pr ijLafdf asIN aflocnfqmk lyK Cfpdy sI. prcf ijLafdf imzl klfs dI iltryrI jfgrqI vfly pfTkF df hI irhf hY.

svfl: prcy dIaF mfiek loVF ikvyN pUrIaF huMdIaF sn?
jvfb: pihlF pihlF qF asIN 7-8 dosq ijhVy sI AunHF ny 20-20 rupY pf lYxy. prcy df sfrf Krcf 400 ku ruipaf sI. sfnMU AumId sI ik awDy pcwdy ku sfnMU cMidaF qoN af jfxgy. pr do iqMn iesLU kwZx qoN bfad sfnMU lwigaf ik ieh kMm musLikl hY. AunHF idnF ivc 20 rupY dyxy vI bVy aOKy lwgdy sn. mYN prcy df aYzItr sI myry isr Aupr sfrI ijLMmyvfrI sI. myrI idlcspI vI ijLafdf sI ik prcf inkly. bfkI sfQI vI BfvyN myry ijqny hI AuqsLfhI sn pr AunHF dI idlcspI sLfied myry ijqnI nhIN sI. so iqMnf ku aMkF qoN bfad asIN ieh PYslf ilaf ik jykr koeI afpxy ihwsy dy pYsy nhIN dy skdf qF Aus Aupr iksy iksm df iglHf nhIN. Aus qoN bfad sfrf kMm myry AuWpr af igaf. myry kol koeI hor qrIkf iblkul nhIN sI isrP isrV hI sI. Xqn iehI huMdf sI ik sfrIaF musLiklF dy bfvjUd prcf kwZxf jLrUr hY. hflFik hux mYnMU ieh afpxy mUMhoN p®sLMsf lYx vflI gwl jfpdI hY. iPr vI kdy kdy iek awDf aMk nhIN vI inkldf sI. pMjF ku sflF qwk ieh nObq af geI ik prcf QoVHI dyr leI bMd hI ho igaf. muV ky ZfeI iqMn sfl bfad dubfrf sLurU kIqf. AudoN qwk myrI afpxI pYsy dI siQqI pihlF vrgI mfVI nhIN sI. iPr dyK lAu aMk nMbr 15 qoN lY ky jo sMn 1975 ivc inkilaf, sMn 1987 qwk koeI ivGn nhIN ipaf. pr Auqrfa cVHfa bVy afey. keI lok qF ieh smJdy sn ik ieh koeI bVf ibjLnYs hovygf. pr ieh qF sfnMU hI pqf hY ik ikvyN kMm clfieaf.

svfl: prcf sLurU krn qoN bfad quhfzy prcf kwZx dy AudysLF ivc iks iksm dIaF qbdIlIaF afeIaF?
jvfb: myrf iKafl ivc buinafdI qbdIlI koeI nhIN afeI. muwK qOr qy sfzf mksd sI ik “aYkspYrImYNt” krn vfilaF df ivroD krfnf. dUsrf ik iltrycr rIailsitk (XQfrQvfdI) vI rihxf cfhIdf hY qy iehdf pwDr vI AuWcf hoxf cfhIdf hY. mfVI ilKq BfvyN progryisv vI hovy asIN AusdI hoNslf aPjLfeI nhIN kIqI. BfvyN ipCly 2-3 dhfikaF ivc smuwcy hflfqF ivc afeIaF qbdIlIaF df asr prcy AuWpr vI hoieaf hovygf pr sfzy smuwcy insLfny ivc koeI bhuqf Prk nhIN ipaf. smyN smyN qy vwK vwK ivisLaF Aupr bihsF clfAuNdy rhy hF ijvyN hux sovIaq XUnIan dy sbMD ivc cwlI hY. ipCly simaF ivc sfihq kI hY, jF smfj kI hY afid ivisLaF bfry glbfq clfAuNdy rhy hF. ieh krYktr asIN pihly idn qoN hI bxfieaf sI ik asIN ies gl qoN nhIN GbrfAuxf jy koeI bMdf sfzy iKlfP gwl krdf hY. asIN afpxy ivroDIaF nMU afpxy prcy ivc Cpx df mOkf dyxf hY. mYnMU ies gwl ivc ivsLvfs sI ik sfzI gwl TIk hY jo asIN kih rhy hF Auh TIk hY, ies leI asIN bihs CyVn qoN kdI nhIN Gbrfey. ijvyN jdoN rfjnIqI bfry gwl huMdI qF asIN dwsx dI koisLsL krdy ik rfjnIqI df ijLMdgI ivc, siBafcfrk ilKqF ivc ikMnf dKl ho skdf hY, ikvyN ies qoN bwc ky nhIN irhf jf skdf. ijhVy lok ieh kihMdy hn ik sfihq ivc rfjnIqI nhIN cfhIdI drasl ivc Auh vI rfjnIqI hI kr rhy huMdy hn. iesy qrHF sL®yxI Gol dI gwl huMdI qF asIN dsdy ik hr ilKq iksy ny iksy klfs dy id®sLtIkox nMU p®gt krdI hY. ijhVy bMdy kih rhy hn ik ieh nhIN cfhIdI AuhnF dI ieh gwl vI iksy klfs dy id®sLtIkox vwl iesLfrf krdI hY. so asIN bihsF krdy rhy hF. ieQy mYN QoVHf ijhf ieh vI dws idaF ik asIN sLuwD iltryrI bihsF vI kIqIaF qy ivcfrDfrk aqy polItIkl ivisLaF nMU vI hwQ pfAuNdy rhy hf. msln ijvyN hux vflf - mfrkisjLm df - ivsLf iswDy qOr qy iltryrI ivsLf nhIN hY pr mYnMU lwgdf hY ik iksy lyKk leI ies dI vI AuqnI hI mhwqqf hY.

svfl: jdoN p®Xogvfd dI lihr AuWTI qF kI ies ivc ihwsf lYx vfly pihlF hI sQfpq lyKkF ivcoN kuwJ lyKk hI sn jF iblkul nvyN lok ies ivc afey sn?
jvfb: sLurU ieh nivaF ny hI kIqI sI. purfxy bMdy iQVkdy jfpdy sn. kuwJ bMdy qF iblkul hI cuwp ho gey. msln ijvyN mohx isMG hY asIN Auhdf bVf afdr krdy sI. jdoN prfgrYisv gwl cwlI qF asIN AuhnMU nfl lY ky qurdy sI. nfly kih dyxf ik ienHF df bVf vwzf rol hY nfly kih dyxf ik hux ienHF df smF bIq igaf. pr ieho ijhy bMdy afpxI kmjLorI idKf ky p®XogvfdIaF nfl qur pYNdy sn jF qurn dI koisLsL krdy sI. hrBjn isMG df nfm vI vrnx Xog hY ijsnMU p®XogvfdI AuBfrdy sn. ieh sfry bMdy nvyN sn ijvyN mIsLf, rivMdr rvI, sqI kumfr, jgqfr. iesy qrHF nftkkfr surjIq isMG syTI afid ny vI vfhvf ies iksm dI koisLsL kIqI qy purfxy bMdy ienHF qoN iQVkdy jfpdy sn. sfzI ieh koisLsL sI ik ienHF (purfxy bMidaF dI) dI iQVkfht vI rokxI hY qy ies nvyN cYlMj df mukfblf vI krnf hY. AuNJ koeI aYsf bMdf purfixaF ivc nhIN hY jo ienHF nfl pUry qOr qy quiraf hovy. isrP hrBjn isMG bfry QoVHf bhuqf ikhf jf skdf hY. p®XogvfdIaF nMU CyqI hI jfpx lwg ipaf ik ieh gwl nhIN bx rhI. pihlF qF sLbd pRXogvfd qy hI JgVf pYNdf irhf ik kI ieh koeI vfd vI ho skdf hY? iPr bfad ivc kihx lwg pey ik asIN p®XogvfdI nhIN p®XogsLIl hF. Pyr gwl hox lwg peI ik p®XogsLIl hoxf vI ikhVI gwl hY. Pyr ieh bdl ky kihx lwg pey ik asIN nF p®XogvfdI hF nf p®XogsLIl blik asIN mfzrnist hF afDuinkqfvfdI hF. Pyr iek styj aYsI vI afeI ik ieh kihx lwg pey sfzf prfgryisv lyKkF nfl koeI ivroD nhIN hY asIN qF isrP PfrmUlf tfeIp pfqrF jF iPkrybfjIaF dy ivroDI hF nhIN qy ijQy qwk ivakqIgwq kImqF df qfaluwk hY asIN AunHF dy nfl hF. so bhuq sfiraF ny ies qrHF QoVHf QoVHf ipwCy hwtxf sLurU kr idwqf sI.

svfl: ies mUvmYNt dy cwlx ivc koeI bfhrlf asr vI sI jF pMjfb dIaF sQfnk hflqF ny hI iesnMU cflU krn ivc rol adf kIqf?
jvfb: mYnMU ies bfry pUrI jfxkfrI qF nhIN pr ijvyN mYN pihlF ikhf ik dUjIaF jLubfnF ivc vI iˆes iksm df islislf cl irhf sI qy sfzy ivc vI klfs AuBr rhI sI. msln jdoN ieh p®XogvfdI mfrkisstF qy hmlf krdy sI qF kihMdy sI ik asIN nihrUvfdI hF. ieh jo pMj sflf XojnfvF nfl qrwkI hoeI hY asIN iesnMU p®vfn krky cldy hF. ies qrHF AunHF dIaF afpxIaF jmfqI loVF sn. sLfied ijhVI nvIN klfs AuBr rhI sI Aus ivc afpxy afp nMU sLfiml krnf cfhuMdy sn. prfgrYisv lokF dI ieh gwl sI ik Auh ies (pMj sflf XojnfvF) qoN ijLafdf afs nhIN sn rwKdy. ieh p®XogvfdI lok Auh sn jo sfry dy sfry “aYstYbilsLmYNt” (sQfpqI) nfl smJOqf krdy cldy sn qy AunHF dI koisLsL huMdI sI ik asIN ies ivc afpxf ihwsf pfeIey. AuNJ vYsy ies iksm df iPnoimnf (vrqfrf) Aus vyly sfry dysL ivc hI sI.

svfl: AusqoN bfd pMjfb ivc sfihq dy Kyqr ivc Kfskr khfxI qy kivqf dy Kyqr ivc jo juJfrvfdI lihr afeI Aus vwl isrjxf df kI rvweIaf sI?
jvfb: isrjxf df rvweIaf ivroD vflf iblkul nhIN sI pr iesnMU AuBfrn vflf vI iblkul nhIN sI. ikAuNik ieh sfrf kuwJ sfzy sfhmxy hI vfprdf sI qy mYN afp nkslfeIt mUvmYNt dy ijLafdf nyVy nhIN igaf, ies krky AusnMU pUrf smrQn nhIN idwqf. swcI gwl qF ieh hY ik asIN ieh gwlF isrjxf ivc gwl-bfq rfhIN hI nhIN kIqIaF. mYN sgoN ieh kihMdf sI ik jo kuJ pMjfbI sfihq ivc p®XogvfdIaF ny kIqf hY ieh juJfrvfd Ausdf “aovr-rIaYksLn” hY. AunHF (p®XogvfdIaF) ny iltrycr nUM lokF nfloN iblkul qoVn df Xqn kIqf sI, ieh juJfrvfd - jo lok ivisLaF qy lokF dI gwl krdf hY - Ausdf rIaYksLn hY qy ies krky mYN smJdf hF ik ieh iek TIk gwl hY. pr nfl nfl mYN ieh vI kihMdf sI ik ieh iek hwd qwk Aulfr vI hY. AuNJ jo Aus vyly lyKk AuBry sn AunHF nfl sfzf ijLafdf sMprk nhIN sI hflFik ijvyN imzl klfs dI tYzYNsI (Jukfa) huMdI hY ijvyN keI lyKk p®Xogvfd vfly pfsy iQVky sn Ausy qrHF keI lyKk ies pfsy vwl iQVkx dI koisLsL krdy sn. keIaF ny Dwky nfl vI afpxy afp nMU aijhf bxfAux dI koisLsL kIqI. ijvyN mYN jgqfr dI iek njLm AudoN CfpI sI jdoN juJfrvfd ajy polItIkl iPnoimnf vI nhIN sI pr bfad ivc jgqfr Ausy njLm nMU ieAuN pysL krdf irhf ik ieh Aus lihr dI Aupj hY. iesy qrHF lfl isMG idl jo bfad ivc nkslvfdI lihr df iek p®muwK lyKk bixaf AusdI iek njLm sI. pr smwucy qOr qy sfzf ieh rvweIaf sI ik asIN juJfrvfd dI ivcfrDfrf nMU iek TIk gwl mMnky cldy sI BfvyN lyKkF nfl sfzf aYzf sMprk nhIN sI. myrf qF iek njLrIaf ieh vI sI ik juJfrvfd prfgrYisv mUvmYNt df hI iek ihwsf hY. AuNJ juJfrDfrf vwl sfzy ies iksm dy rvweIey df iek kfrn ieh vI ho skdf hY ik ijs vkq ieh Dfrf pUrI cVHq qy sI AudoN isrjxf bMd peI sI. mYnMU ies gwl df QoVHf ijhf aPsos vI hY. BfvyN sfnMU ies gwl df pqf sI ik asIN jF sfzy imwqr styt dI QoVHI bhuqI mfr vI nhIN sih skdy pr kivqf ivc asIN josL dI gwl krdy sI. asIN AunHF nfl ieh gwl jLrUr krdy sI ik iks hwd qwk ieh mUvmYNt TIk hY iks hwd qwk nhIN.

svfl: qusIN pI[aYc[zI[ kdoN kIqI?
jvfb: pI[aYc[zI[ qF mYN bhuq lyt kIqI, 1982 ivc. jdoN mYN jMizafly qoN CuwtI kIqI qF aqr isMG pMjfb XUnIvristI af igaf sI. kosLkfrI ivBfg AudoN nvF bixaf sI AuWQy. mYnMU syKoN sfihb ny ikhf ik AuQy clf jfh. mYN iPr cMzIgVH af igaf. AuQy afky swB kuJ bdl igaf. AuQy rihMidaF hI pI[ aYc[ zI[ kIqI. hor vI keI sfry tIcr sn ijnHF ny AuQy rihMidaF hI pI[ aYc[ zI[ kIqI. bhuq icr kosLkfrI ivBfg ivc irhf.

svfl: sfihq qy isafsq dy msly ivc jLubfn df mslf kI pujLIsLn rwKdf hY qy isrjxf ivc qusIN AusnMU ikvyN nijwTdy rhy ho?
jvfb: iesdy keI pwDr hn, iek qF ieh ik pMjfbI jLubfn nMU pMjfb styt ivc Ausdf TIk QF imlxf. bVI kudrqI gwl hY ik asIN mfrkisst soc vfly ieh smJdy hF ik ijhVI lokF dI jLubfn hY AuhI rfj p®bMD dI jLubfn hoxI cfhIdI hY qy iswiKaf df mfiDam hoxI cfhIdI hY. pMjfb ivc lyKkF dI jQybMdk lihr ies msly nMU bhuq AuBfrdI rhI hY. pr mYN iek gwl Aupr bVf TIk hF ik sfzI isafsI lIzrisLp nMU jLubfn jF klcr dI aYzI koeI cyqnf nhIN hY. ies msly ivc kOminstF nMU QoVHf bhuq mfn idwqf jf skdf hY pr mYN nhIN smJdf ik Auh vI Auqny sucyq hn ijqny hoxy cfhIdy hn. bfkI dUsrI lIzrisLp nMU qF cyqnf iblkul nhIN hY hflFik pMjfb ivc jLubfn dy nfm Aupr ieqnf kuwJ hoieaf hY ieQoN qwk ik mOjUdf pMjfb dI siQqI df iek kfrn vI jLubfn hI hY. lokF ivc jLuubfn sfry afDfr qy Tosx dI koisLsL kIqI qy pMjfb dy iek ihwsy ny jLubfn qoN ienkfrI kIqI hY. ies msly Aupr lyKkF qy lyKk sBfvF ny bVf vwzf kMm kIqf hY. mYN smJdf hF ik hux qwk pMjfb ivc jLubfn dI vrqoN leI rfj p®bMD aqy ividak adfiraF ivc jo kuwJ hoieaf hY Auh muwK qOr qy lyKkF dy XqnF nfl hoieaf hY. qusIN ieh jfx ky hYrfn hovogy ik pMjfbI XUnIvristI sQfipq krn df mqf lyKkF dI iksy kfnP®Ms ivc pfs hoieaf sI ijsnMU sMq isMG syKoN ny pysL kIqf sI. lyKk afpxIaF vwK vwK kfnP®MsF ivc mMg krdy rhy hn ik pMjfbI bI[ey[ qwk lfjmI hoxI cfhIdI hY qy iswiKaf df mfiDam hoxf cfhIdf hY afid. ieh swB gwlF vwK vwK pVHfvF Aupr lyKkF ny hI AuBfrIaF hn qy Aus ivc sPlqf imldI rhI hy. hux sgoN ipCly keI virHaF qoN pMjfbI BfsLf nMU lfgU krfAux df Xqn vI kIqf hY qF Auh lyKk jQybMdIaF ny hI kIqf hY. bfkI sfzI lIzrisLp cfhy Auh afkflI hY cfhy kFgrsI, ikMnIaF mrjI gwlF krI jfvy pMjfbI jLubfn dIaF, AunHF dy afpxy bwcy aMg®yjLI mfiDam skUlF ivc pVHdy hn qy pUry aMg®yjL bxn dI koisLsL krdy hn. so mYN ieh smJdf hF ik ieh iek jmfqI mslf hY. isrjxf ivc jLubfn dy msly AuWpr vI gwl-bfq kIqI sI ijs ivc vwzy vwzy bMidaF nMU swdf idwqf igaf.

dUsrf mslf ieh hY ik isrjxfqmk jF aflocnfqimk sfihq dI kI jLuubfn hovy? smfj ivigafn dy ijhVy vwK vwK ivsLy hn AunHF dI kI jubfn hovy? Ausdy bfry mYN ieh smJdf hF ik sfzI jLubfn nMU bhuq amIr hox dI loV hY. asIN iek sIimq sLbdfvlI nfl ieh kMm nhIN kr skdy. jdoN asIN vwK vwK ivisLaF Auqy aqy vwK vwK pwDrF Aupr gwl krnI hY qF jLubfn dIaF loVF bhuq vwD jFdIaF hn. ies leI qusIN jLubfn nMU AuQy hI nhIN rwK skdy ijQy pihlF rhI sI. ies leI ieh iek idlcspI vflI gwl bx jFdI hY ik mYN Aus kYNp ivc Kloqf hF ijnHF Aupr dosL lgdf hY ik ieh jLuubfn nMU ivgfV rhy hn jF jLubfn nMU aOKI kr rhy hn. BfvyN ieh gwl TIk hY ik jLubfn lokF dy nyVy hoxI cfhIdI hY pr iesdf ieh mqlb qF nhIN ik jykr iek afm afdmI dI sLbdfvlI 400 sLbdF qwk sIimq hY, jLubfn Aus pwDr Aupr hI bYTI rhy. jdoN asIN jLubfn qoN vwzy kMm lYxy hn ijvyN ik sfzI ieh mMg hY ik ieh aYzimnstrysLn ivc hovy jF akfdimk dfieiraF ivc hovy qF Ausdy leI sLbdfvlI nvIN AuBrygI hI. ies bfry bihs mubfsy cldy rihMdy hn ik Aus cIjL df somf kI hovy. kI asIN mUl sLbdfvlI ivc hI qbdIlIaF krky loVF pUrIaF krnIaF hn jF hor soimaF qoN sLbd lYxy hn ijvyN sMsik®q ivcoN, PfrsI ivcoN jF aMg®yjI ivcoN afid. ies iksm dI izbyt cldI rihMdI hY. kuJ lok kihMdy hn ik asIN afpxI jLubfn nMU sMsik®qfeIjL nhIN hox dyxf. ies nfl sfzI jLubfn df krYktr bdl jfvygf. mYN iehnF lokF nfl sihmq nhIN ikAuNik jykr ivigafnk qOr qy dyiKaf jfvy qF sfzI jLubfn sMsik®q ivcoN hI afeI hY. jdoN asIN nvyN lPjL lYxy hn qF sfnMU iesy ivcoN hI lYxy cfhIdy hn. AusdI vjh ieh hY ik jdoN qusIN iek nvF lPjL iksy hor jLubfn ivcoN lYNdy ho qF ieklf AuhI lPjL nhIN afAuNdf Ausdy nfl lPjLF df iek pUrf p®Ivfr afAuNdf hY. Prj kro iek lPj purqgflI ivcoN lY ilaf qF pqf AudoN lwgygf jdoN sLbdF df sfrf p®Ivfr nfl afeygf. sMsik®q ikAuNik sfzI jLubfn dI mF hY ies leI Aus ivcoN nvF sLbd lYx nfl ieh Eprfpn mihsUs nhIN hovygf. vYsy mYN ieh chuMdf hF ik ijqny dysI sLbd sfzy kol p®cilq rUp hn asIN AunHF nMU ivsqfr dy ky gujLfrf kr skIey. pr jdoN sLbdfvlI vDfAuxI hY qF sMsik®q hI Ausdf s®oq hoxf cfhIdf hY. dUsrf ieh ik ikAuNik aMg®yjLI sfzy ivc bhuq pwDr Aupr p®clq hY ies krky Aus ivcoN vI sLbd afAuxgy qy mYN Gwto GWwt ies gwl dy iKlfP nhIN hF.

do iqMn sfl pihlF vI BfsLf dI bihs CyVI sI. lok pY gey lwT lY ky mgr ik dyKo jI ieh pMzq lok ny, p®oPYsr-vfDf, ieh jLubfn ivgfVdy ny. pr mYN smJdf hF asIN jubfn nMU ivgfV nhIN rhy. ieQy sLfied sfzy klcr ivclI anpVHqf df vI hwQ hY ies iksm dI gl clfAux ivc. hux dyKo ik pfiksqfn dI vMz hoeI hY bVI bdiksmq gwl hY pr ieh iek isafsI rIaYltI hY. pMjfbI dy sLbdf df so®q PfrsI vI irhf pr hux Auh s®oq bMd ho cuwikaf hY. qusIN Aus ivcoN iek lPjL qF lY afAugy pr jdoN bhuq sfry lPjL afAuxgy qF Auh quhfzy leI Epry bx jfxgy. pr iPr vI mYN ieh kihMdf ik AurdU PfrsI ivcoN vI sLbd lY lYxy cfhIdy hn. pr mYN ieh mihsUs krdf hF ik ijhVI sfzI hux dI pMjfbI dI sLbdfvlI hY ies qoN ikqy vwD sLbdfvlI dI jLrUrq hY. ijs qrHF aMg®yjL ijQy ijQy gey AuQoN dIaF jLubfnF ivcoN sLbd lYNdy rhy. iksy ny ieqrfjL nhIN kIqf ik “spUqink” sLbd sfzI jubfn ivc ikAuN af igaf BfvyN Auh rsLIan df sLbd sI. Auh aMg®yjLI ny vI lY ilaf sfzI jubfn ny vI. iesy qrHF sLbd “rfkt” hY mYN nhIN kihMdf ik ies dy leI koeI sMsik®q ivcoN sLbd lwB ky ilafeIey. jo sLbd afm lokF dI jLubfn Aupr cVH jfx Auh lY lYxy cfhIdy hn. so ieh iek akfdimk bihs df ivsLf hY. mYN smJdf hF ik jykr asIN afpxI jLubfn ivc iPlfsPI dI gwl krnI hY jF ieknoimks dI gwl krnI hY qF sfzf mOjUdf sLbdF nfl gujLfrf nhIN ho skdf sfnMU sLbdfvlI ivsLfl krnI pvygI.

qusIN aMg®yjLI dI gwl dyKo. ijvyN sLbd “vftr” hY ieh lYitn, g®Ik ivcoN afieaf hY pr ijwQy ies dy nfl sbMDq sLbdfvlI dI loV huMdI hY AuQy sLbd aYkuaf vrqdy hn. so kihx df Bfv hY ik jdoN qusIN kMnsYpt jF PfrmUlysLn dI pwDr Aupr gwl krnI hY qF jLubfn hor qrHF dI ho jFdI hY. ieh koeI ivgfVn vflI gwl nhIN. jLubfn df aOKf hoxf quhfzy igafn dI pwDr nfl qfalwuk rKdf hY. pr mYN smJdf hF ik sfzI jLubfn ivc bVI smrwQf hY qy sfzI jLubfn Aus ZMg nfl hI ivkfs kr rhI hY. ijvyN qusIN lok bfhr bYTy ho quhfzI jLubfn iek hor ZMg nfl ivkfs krygI qy mYN smJdf hF ik sfnMU Ausdf ivroD nhIN krnf cfhIdf. asIN iesnMU khFgy ik ieh kYnyzIan pMjfbI hY qy smuwcy qOr qy sfrI jLubfn nMU amIr kr rhI hY. jLuubfnF bhuq hflqF ivc ivgfV ivcoN hI ivkisq hoeIaF hn. mYN bhuq ijLafdf sMsik®q vrqx dy hwk ivc nhIN qy afp afpxIaF ilKqF ivc sucyq pwDr qy ikDry vI aOKI jLubfn nhIN vrqdf. pr mYN smJdf hF ik lyKk jdoN koeI lPjL cuxdf hY qF AusnMU pqf huMdf hY ik mYN ieh lPjL ikAuN vrq irhf hF. mYN smJdf hF ik lPjL dI AuQy loV hoxI cfhIdI hY. ieh kfPI izbYt vflf mslf hY.

svfl: jo ilwpI df mslf hY ik pMjfbI gurmuKI ivc ilKxI hY, dyvnfgrI ivc jF PfrsI ivc ilKxI hY ikAuNik pMjfbI bolx vfly ijLafdf lok pfiksqfn ivc rihMdy hn. kI koeI ies msly dy hwl hox dy afsfr njLr af rhy?
jvfb: mYnMU lwgdf hY ik ieh hoxf nhIN. bVI bdiksmq gwl hY ijvyN ik mYN pihlF kih cuwkf hF ik ieh iek isafsI scfeI hY. do dysL bx cuwky hn. ijqnI dyr ivckfr lkIr hY AuqnI dyr ieh mslf hwl hoxf sMBv nhIN. ies sbMD ivc pfiksqfnI dosqF nfl vI gwl huMdI rihMdI hY. mYN afpxI skirpt nMU vizafAux dI gwl nhIN krdf BfvyN mYN afp iek Kfs Drm ivcoN afieaf hF pr myrf iKafl hY ik sfzI jLubfn leI gurmuKI skirpt hI swB qoN ZuwkvIN skirpt hY. prsLIan skirpt sfzy bhuq sfry sLbdF nMU TIk qrHF ilK nhIN skdI. jykr ilK vI dyvy qF Aus ivc Aucfrx dy sbMD ivc bVy BulyKy rihMdy hn. mYN Kud BfvyN AurdU cMgI qrHF jfxdf hF pr jdoN mYN AurdU ivc ilKI hoeI pMjfbI pVHdf hF qF mYnMU vI bVI musLikl afAuNdI hY hflFik AurdU pVHx leI mYnMU koeI smwisaf nhIN. pMjfbI ilKx leI mYnMU Auh ZukvIN skirpt nhIN lwgdI. mYN ies krky nhIN kih rihf ik mYN afp ieDrly pfsy df hF. pr pfiksqfn ivc ieh gwl ilafAuxI sMBv nhIN lwgdI. AunHF df iek Kfs iksm df muhfx bx cwuikaf hY ik ieh gurmuKI skirpt iswKF dI skirpt hY hflFik ieh gwl hoxI nhIN cfhIdI. ies siQqI nMU p®vfn krnf cfhIdf qy ies hflfq ivc asIN sucyq bMdy vwD qoN vwD iehI kr skdy hF ik asIN prisLan skirpt iswKIey Auh gurmuKI skirpt iswKx. vYsy aYho ijhy Xqn ho rhy hn. pr afm lokF dy pwDr Aupr ieh gwl ikvyN ho skdI hY mYnMU iehdy bfry pqf nhIN.

svfl: quhfzI afpxI hux qwk iewko ikqfb CpI hY BfvyN qusIN ieqnI dyr qoN ilK rhy ho, iesdf kI kfrn hY?
jvfb: jdoN prcf inklx lwg pYNdf hY qF bhuq Cpx dI iewCf nhIN rih jFdI jF kih lAu ies iksm dI ivhl hI nhIN imldI. afpxy afp nMU afrgynfeIjL krn df mOkf nhIN imldf. mYnMU afp aihsfs ho irhf ik mYN aYnIaF cIjLF ilK ky AunHF vwl iDafn nhIN idwqf jo ik ikqfb dI sLkl ivc afAuxIaF cfhIdIaF sn. mYnMU hux lgdf hY ik mYnMU ies nfl Gftf ipaf hY. ikAuNik ijhVI ikqfb awj qoN awT sfl pihlF CpxI cfhIdI sI jy Auh hux CpdI hY qF Aus ivc bhuq sfrIaF gwlF ierYlyvYNt (asMgq) hoxgIaF. afpxf kIqf kMm vI nhIN mYN Cfp swikaf sLfied ieh mYnMU aYzItr hox df qkfjLf dyxf pY irhf hY. mYnMU pqf hY ik lok ikqfb CpvfAux leI bhuq kfhl krdy hn pr ijs iksm dI GOl myry koloN hoeI hY Auh nhIN hoxI cfhIdI. pr ies qoN pihlF ik myrf kIqf hoieaf pUrf kMm asMgq ho jfvy mYN Cfpx dI koisLsL krFgf ijs kMm df hux vI arQ hY. bhuq sfry dosqF dI vI iehI slfh hY. ijvyN ik gdr lihr dy Pyl hox qoN bfad Auh mUvmYNt bfkI nYsLnl mUvmYNt nMU bfad ivc ikvyN asr krdI rhI hY cfhy Auh bbr afkflI lihr hovy jF kominst lihr hovy. iesy ivsLy Aupr mYN kfPI kMm kIqf hY. mYN ieh kMm krn vflf pihlf bMdf sI, KrVf myry kol hY ipCly do dhfikaF qoN pr mYN nhIN Cfp sikaf. bfad ivc hor lokF ny ihstrI dy AuhI s®oq vrq ley. so myrI GOl ny hI myrf nuksfn kIqf hY. ijLafdfqr mYN GOlI bMdf hF, AuhI kMm krdf hF jo myrf krn nUMU jIa krdf hY qy Aus ivc myrf cMgf isrV hY. isrjxf vI iesy krky inklI jFdI hY.

svfl: krIyeyitv lyKkF dy ilKx dy prfiss bfry qF pVHdy rihMdy hF pr ijhVy aflock huMdy hn Auh iks prfiss ivcoN lMG ky ilKdy hn? kI AunHF dI afpxI aMdrUnI PIlINg huMdI hY jF bfhrly kfrn AunHF nMU aflocnf krn lˆeI p®yrdy hn?
jvfb: aflock vI mYN smJdf Ausy qrHF hY ijvyN isrjxfqmk lyKk hY. ijs qrHF isrjxfqmk lyKk ny cox kIqI hY ik Ausny kivqf ilKxI hY, khfxI jF nftk ilKxf hY afpxI rucI muqfbk myrf iKafl hY aflock vI Ausy qrHF huMdf hY. jykr Auh iemfndfr hY qF AunHF nMU afpxIaF sImfvF df pqf hoxf cfhIdf hY ik Auh ikhVI gwl Aupr ijLafdf afQOrtI nfl gwl kr skdy hn. keI aijhy aflock vI hn ijnHF qoN qusIN jo mrjLI ilKf lAu pr mYN nhIN smJdf ik myrI leI ieh sMBv hY. pihlF aflock dI gwl aYnI nhIN sI huMdI pr hux XUnIvristIaF dIaF akfdimk loVF hn qy AunHF loVF ivcoN hI aflocnf huMdI hY. iqMn dhfky pihlF aflocnf inrol sLOk dy afDfr Aupr huMdI sI. moty qOr qy ieh hY ik XUnIvristIaF ivc Kyqr vMzy hoey hn ijvyN koeI mYnMU khygf ik mYN iPksLn bfry aflocnf ilKFgf. iesy qrHF prcf kwZx krky mYnMU aKbfrF vgYrf vfsqy irvIAU vI ilKxy pYNdy hn. keI vfrI afpxI loV vjoN vI ilK dyeIdI hY ik ieh ikqfb vDIaf hY jF ieh lyKk crcf df ivsLf hY afid. so vwK vwK hflfq huMdy hn. msln jdoN ajmyr aOlK dy nftk afey hn mYN AunHF Aupr vI iliKaf hY qy kdI kivqf Aupr vI iliKaf hY pr muwK qOr qy mYN iPksLn Aupr hI iliKaf hY.

svfl: pMjfbI dy lyKkF/aflockF nMU mfn snmfx qF jF hor nOkrIaF afid dy Pfiedy afid qF iml jFdy hn pr iek lyKk pMjfbI rcnf jF ikqfb dy isroN afpxI rotI rojLI qor sky, ieh gwl ajy ikqnI ku dUr jfpdI hY?
jvfb: ajy bhuq dUr dI gwl hY. ikAuNik pMjfb ivc ikqfb dy ivkx df klcr ivkisq nhIN hoieaf ijsnMU iltryrI klcr kihMdy hn. kfrn kuwJ vI ho skdy hn. Auh lok jo sfihq ivc idlcspI vI rKdy hn ikqfbF KrIdx ivc ivsLvfs nhIN rKdy. ies leI ajy bhuq kMm krn vflf ipaf hY. styt vI rol adf kr skdI hY jF vwK vwK sMsQfvF vI rol adf kr skdIaF hn ik pMjfb ivc iltrryrI klcr pYdf hovy. pr ieh gwl ajy kfPI dUr hY.

jdoN mYN isrjxf dI gwl kr irhf sI qF mYN dwisaf sI ik mYN kfPI afriQk boJ Jwilaf hY. koeI kMm vI bMdf ibnF lfB qoN nhIN krdf. myrf ieh mwq sI ik mYN jo kMm kr irhf hF Auh iek cMgf kMm kr irhf hF qy mYN ies kMm dy Xog hF. lfB hfn inrol pYisaF df nhIN huMdf. jykr mYN isrjxF ivc pYsy pfAuNdf irhf hF qF mYN ies gwl df iksy Aupr iglHf nhIN krdf, mYnMU lwgdf hY ieh myrI loV sI, myrI ienvYstmYNt sI qy mYnMU lwgdf hY ik isrjxf dy pMinaF rfhIN ipCly do dhfikaF ivc AuhI gwl hoeI hY ijs iksm dI glbfq asIN cfhuMdy sI ik pMjfbI sfihq ivc hovy . mYnMU ies gwl dI KusLI hY ik vwzy vwzy smrQ lyKk jo iksy vyly iQVkx df isLkfr ho skdy sI sLfied isrjxf krky nhIN hoey. keI nvyN lyKk isrjxf dy pMinaF rfhIN AuBry hn qy isrjxf dI sLfn bxI hoeI hY ik jo lyKk isrjxf ivc Cpdf hY AusnMU mfnqf imldI hY. cMgy lyKk ijvyN aOlK, virafm sMDU jo lok p®vfn hoey hn qF mYN smJdf hF ik Aus ivc isrjxf df vI Xogdfn hY ies iksm dI projYksLn ivc. mYN smJdf hF ik ieh myrf rIvfrz (ienfm) hY qy isrjxf dy aYzItr vjoN vI mYnMU bhuq afdr mfx imilaf hY. qusIN dunIaF dy prly isry bYTy ho qy quhfzy nfl myrI sFJ df kfrn vI isrjxf hI hY. so myrf kihx df Bfv hY ik prcf kwZx ipwCy myrf pYsy df koeI lfhf nhIN sI pr jo mYnMU mfx qfx imilaf hY iesy krky imilaf hY ik mYN prcf kwZdf hF.